[mythtv] MythTV life-cycle support intentions

[Michael T. Dean]

On 08/22/2012 07:36 PM, Brian J. Murrell wrote:
> On 12-08-22 06:31 PM, Michael T. Dean wrote:
>> I suppose, then, that you never ever record any Movies?
> Actually, no, I don't.  If I want to watch a movie, I'd rather see it
> not-edited-for-television and commercialized.  So I rent it.
>
>> ("But why are
>> *some* movies in Watch Recordings and others in Video Library and how do
>> I know which ones I will find where, again?")
> Doesn't happen here.
>
>> For me, the origin and
>> type (TV or movies) of the video is really irrelevant.  If I record
>> Stargate SG-1 and love it so much that I decide I want to see the
>> Stargate movies and buy the DVDs, I'm not going to keep the TV series in
>> Watch Recordings and the movies I ripped from DVD in Video Library--I'll
>> put it all together in the one location that allows me to add any video
>> and organize it myself.
> In fact, the difference between TV Recordings and Videos is even more
> subtle than that.  It's mostly about "transientness" where Videos is for
> stuff you want to keep and TV Recordings is for stuff you want to watch,
> because it was shown, and then you delete it.  But this transientness
> directly correlates (movies shown on TV that you decide to archive,
> aside -- but as I said, we don't do that here) between TV Recordings and
> Videos.
>
> But this correlation between location and transientness supports my
> argument of craziness: it's unnatural to go looking for these transient
> recordings in Videos.
>
>> I was describing the right approach for making sure you can watch
>> recordings
> Which are most likely transient TV Recordings.
>
>> made after you upgraded but before you decided to downgrade
>> instead of fixing the issue.  If you actually plan to keep those
>> recordings--they're not just watch and delete shows--then you should
>> really put them in Video Library,
> Sure, but that's a strawman to the issue -- having to put transient
> recordings that happened between upgrade and downgrade somewhere where
> they are not expected.
>
>> along with all the other episodes of
>> that show.
> But again, it's a strawman to start talking about the possibility that
> these between upgrade and downgrade recordings *might* be desirable to
> long-term archive in Videos.  I'd posit that more times than not, they
> don't qualify and are just transient recordings.
>
>> If you have other related recordings from before the
>> upgrade, move them to Video Library, too--even if you don't plan to keep
>> them--just to keep them together.  (Video Library is designed for
>> managing large collections of video, unlike Watch Recordings,
> Right.  I'd suggest that a "collection" implies a desire for long-term
> storage.  Most TV Recordings probably don't qualify for the average
> viewer/user.  My TV Recordings set is quite large, almost none of which
> I desire long-term storage of.  In fact, quite a bit of it will be
> deleted without even watching.  This is because we record every new show
> on -- September is gangbusters for Mythtv around here.  We of course
> cannot watch every new show, but we can wait out the first 3 months and
> see what survives and what doesn't and purge what doesn't.
>
>> and you
>> can organize it how you like and use file names that are meaningful, so
>> that the content is always identifiable even if you lose the MythTV
>> database and ...)
> Again, all strawman.  Let's talk about the transient recordings you get
> between upgrade and downgrade.


Call it a strawman or whatever.

I've /been/ saying in all of my discussion of using Video Library that 
it's /the/ place for archival of videos--where you put videos to keep.  
So you're completely agreeing with me, except about...

>> So the part you're not getting is that I'm not saying to just put random
>> things in Video Library--I'm saying put anything there that you plan to
>> keep.
> Sure.  No argument from me.  But I was addressing your point of putting
> between-upgrade-and-downgrade recordings into the Video library as well
> simply because they would not be considered recorded by /this/ MythTV
> instance.  That's why all of the rest of this archival-quality moving of
> stuff to Videos is a strawman to this point.

the shows that were recorded when you tried to upgrade and failed to 
make things work properly.

For this particular case, I'm saying you can just throw those recordings 
into some temporary area in Video Library--since it's better than the 
alternative of losing them or being "forced" to actually try to figure 
out what's wrong and make the new version work.  And, since they're 
transient recordings, anyway, you'll watch and delete them in no time, 
then that failed upgrade will fade from everyone's memory--along with 
those transient recordings you've now deleted--right?

> Ultimately, this goes back to my point that if downgrading were painless
> (including inserting between-upgrade-and-downgrade recordings back into
> the downgraded database), you'd get a lot more people willing to test
> pre-GA.

It's not.  It wouldn't be painless for us to make it painless (and 
forever be stuck trying to keep all our future changes such that we 
could support upgrades and downgrades)***.  So the best we can offer, 
currently, is "stick those recordings in Video Library until you watch 
them."

Mike

*** Not to mention that if 0.26 supports easy downgrade to 0.25 and 0.25 
supports easy downgrade to 0.24 and ..., users will think they can go 
back to any version and up to any newer version at all just by rolling 
back changes one by one.  We have a hard enough time making sure that 
database upgrades work properly--and convincing users that if they have 
a failure, they need to restore the pre-upgrade backup (that they 
invariably forget to create) before attempting the upgrade again.  I 
know I don't have the energy to try to support upgrades and downgrades 
or "work with the old schema/data versions in the newer application 
version" or ...  The current approach is tiring enough for me.  :)