[mythtv-users] Is the pchdtv card looking good?

[Jarod C. Wilson]

On Tuesday, Sep 16, 2003, at 21:31 US/Pacific, Brandon Beattie wrote:

> On Tue, Sep 16, 2003 at 08:11:27PM -0700, Jarod C. Wilson wrote:
>>> I don't think you misunderstood.  I have saved MANY HD streams and 
>>> they
>>> all included 2 resolutions, 720p and 480i (this probably changes from
>>> station to station)
>>
>> 720p and 480i?!? Is that HD and NTSC on the same channel? From what I
>> can tell, all I'm getting over cable is 1080i HD, and those channels
>> are on different channels than normal TV (ex: 31 = ESPN, 173 = ESPN
>> HD). But of course, I have no way to capture these streams, so I can't
>> really be sure what the tuner (Motorola DCT5100; I've had it a week
>> now) is receiving. From what I understand, most HDTVs do 720p either.
>> Most are 1080i and 480p for HD and 480i for NTSC, while some do 720p,
>> and almost none do both 1080i and 720p...
>
> A HD display device is one of the following.  1440x720 (720P), 1920x540
> (1080i), 960x540 (1080i).  I have yet to see a 1920x1080 (1080/p) HD
> display _being sold_.

So what is the deal with me not being able to use videogen to create a 
1920x540 custom modeline to output to my TV? 960x540 doesn't work 
either. I've been having a miserable time with this Audio Authority 
adapter, but I don't think the adapter is the problem...

> HD streams (ATSC) are 80% 1080i (1920x1080i), 15% 720p, 80% 480P
> (720x480p or 640x480P).  Yes, this is more than 100% but this comes
> because you have subchannels and 480p is often used while using a 1080i
> or 720p stream.
>
> There will be a lot of you thinking this doesn't make sense, or it's
> wrong.

Makes sense to me (mostly ;).

> What you need to know is the DTV spec has about 16
> "resolutions & frame rates" in it.  Your HD display will do _one_ of
> them optimally and the others it will scale and modify to fit your
> native HD resolution.

I thought it was 18 different ones. At least that's how many I'm 
counting at atsc.org right now... (well, okay, actually 16 claim to be 
standards, one a proposed standard and one a candidate standard).

> Which is better?  Depends on your viewing habbits.  If you're a sports
> fan, almost all sports are recorded in 720p because motion looks 
> better.

Though the vast majority of HDTVs can't do 720p... Damn. I'm a sports 
fan.

> 1080i is better for overall "quality and sharpness".  Current 1080i HD
> displays cheat and alternate vertical frames (ie, 1920x1080i showing 
> on a
> 1080x540(p) display.  You don't loose quality and the switching 
> actually
> makes the image loko sharper.  But yes, 1920x1080p (1920x1080) HD would
> be the best video quality, but it is not in the standard.  (SO you 
> know,
> I plan to buy a 1080p (1920x1080 resolution) DLP projector in 5 years
> and then de-interlace the 1080i image for "the best" image.  Until then
> I use a 1024x576 DLP projector)

Out of curiosity, where did the 1080p discussion come in? I didn't ever 
mention it, as I haven't even heard of 1080p displays being sold yet 
(as you said in your other message in this thread).

So what rez should I be trying to feed from my GF4MX through an Audio 
Authority VGA->Component converter to a TV that supports 1080i and 
480p? I think I tried every single line in your HTPC doc, and nothing 
worked...

> All HD display units convert any signal (1080i, 720p, 540p 540i 480p
> 480i, etc) into the displays native resolution.

Is it the display that does the conversion, or can that be done by the 
HD receiver? I can actually set my Motorola DCT5100 to output in just 
about any of the standards, so I thought it was probably the component 
doing the conversions.

> As for SD (480i/p) on a HD display it can look terrible.

I'll second that.

> It depends on
> how the upscaling is being done, and where.  480i tv shows upscaled by
> the tv stations often is the worst thing I've seen being done.

Yeah, those look pretty crappy when compared to true HD content. Still 
slightly better than NTSC, but not by much.

> However,
> re-recording from film still doesn't get the clarity that exists on the
> film.  a 4000x3000 stream taken from the original film will start to
> look as good, but that is 20-30 years off.  (And why people shoudn't
> wait to see some movies on DVD and should spend the money in the
> theaters..

Well, I still like the comfort of my own home, but I see what you mean. 
:) Sound is another matter though.

>>> I have only capped streams in Phoenix on ABC and NBC
>>> and both where the same, however, on NBC... The West Wing still 
>>> looked
>>> like crap... Why is one of the highest nielsen numbers shows 
>>> broadcast
>>> at
>>> the worst possible quality (here in Phoenix)
>>
>> Is it possible it is broadcast in an HD format your TV doesn't like?
>>  From what I understand, a 720p broadcast would have to be scaled by 
>> my
>> tuner to display on my TV (I have a 1080i and 480p capable one; no
>> 720p)... I'd expect the picture would still be pretty good though. Are
>> all NBC HD shows that way? Perhaps the NBC affiliate in Phoenix just
>> doesn't have all the right equipment yet...
>
> If your HD display is one of the first, yes, some are dumb and will 
> only
> take 1 to x signals,  You'll have to buy a tuner that does the scaling
> in it.  (Sorry)

Ah, so the tuner does do the scaling in some cases. I believe that is 
the case with my DCT5100...

> Most new HD displays accept all/most.

April 2001 mfg date on mine...

> Make sure it
> supports 720p, 1080i, 480i and 480p as a minimum.

And has an easier way to get video to it from a computer than mine...

>> I got to watch my first Mariners game broadcast in full-out HD
>> yesterday. Un-freakin'-believable.
>
> :)  That's just your start..

No doubt. I MIGHT just have to ante up and get HBO and/or Showtime, 
both of which Comcast is carrying in HD here...

> ever seen a HD DVD?

Not yet.

> X-Men in HD is incredible.  Oh, and as a side note, when you watch 
> movies on
> HD/broadcast ATSC, it's over twice as good of quality as that on a dvd.

Yeah, I've been blown away by how much better the outright HD channels 
look than DVDs on this same display.

> It makes it hard to just say, "Oh, I have that on dvd and don't need to
> wyatch it now:.

Well, I usually say "I have that on my computer", but... ;p

I think you have convinced me. I'm going to look into getting HBO 
and/or Showtime (gotta look a costs a bit...).

Hey, you wouldn't happen to know why my pcHDTV card that was supposed 
to ship in 2 days when I ordered it a week and a half ago hasn't shown 
up yet, would you? :)

--Jarod

-- 
Jarod C. Wilson, RHCE

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