[mythtv-users] Odds of Linux CableCARD support?

[Steve Adeff]

On Wednesday 11 January 2006 12:21, Joe Votour wrote:
> --- Jason Werpy <jwwerpy at gmail.com> wrote:
> > On 1/10/06, Joe Votour <joevph at yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > --- Yeechang Lee <ylee at pobox.com> wrote:
> > > > Jonathan Oexner <jonathan.oexner at alum.wpi.edu>
> >
> > says:
> > > > > Yeah, I was happy to learn that RCN Boston
> >
> > doesn't
> >
> > > > use 5C
> > > >
> > > > > encryption.
> > > >
> > > > I'm happy to report that RCN San Francisco does
> >
> > not
> >
> > > > either.
> > > >
> > > > Once CableCARD 2.0 ships, what do y'all think
> >
> > are
> >
> > > > the odds of a
> > > > PCI-slot expansion board that comes with one or
> >
> > two
> >
> > > > CableCARD slots,
> > > > *regardless of Linux support*? I figure that
> >
> > having
> >
> > > > the hardware
> > > > actually available (as opposed to slots only
> >
> > being
> >
> > > > available on new,
> > > > presumably MCE-enabled, PCs) is more than 50% of
> > > > getting MythTV
> > > > support done, and if it takes binary, non-free
> > > > drivers for Linux
> > > > support--� la Nvidia or ATi--I don't mind as
> >
> > long
> >
> > > as
> > >
> > > > they
> > > > work.
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Yeechang Lee <ylee at pobox.com> | +1 650 776 7763
> > > >
> > > > San Francisco CA US
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > mythtv-users mailing list
> > > > mythtv-users at mythtv.org
>
> http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
>
> > > It's hard to say whether or not there would be a
> >
> > PCI
> >
> > > board.  The only design that I've heard of with
> > > CableCARD (1.0) support was a Shuttle (I think)
> > > machine, and thus, it was built into the
> >
> > motherboard.
> >
> > > Normally I'd say that some company would just
> > > manufacture them unlicensed, but they'd be slapped
> > > with some sort of DMCA lawsuit, likely.  Then I'd
> >
> > say,
> >
> > > manufacture and sell them outside of the U.S., but
> >
> > I'm
> >
> > > not even sure if CableCARD has been proposed
> >
> > outside
> >
> > > of North America.  (CableLabs is the CableCARD and
> > > DOCSIS specifications writer in the United States,
> > > Europe, although they have EuroDOCSIS, it is done
> >
> > by a
> >
> > > different consortium of European cable operators).
> > >
> > > I'm predicting 0% chance of official CableCARD
> >
> > support
> >
> > > in Linux.  Unofficially, there might be binary
> > > drivers, but I really doubt that.  I'm pretty sure
> > > that Microsoft had to jump through hoops to get
> > > CableCARD support allowed in MCE (CableLabs is
> >
> > pretty
> >
> > > bad, I've worked for two companies that dealt with
> > > them), and anything that is seen as an "open
> >
> > platform"
> >
> > > is just begging to get the big red rubber stamp of
> > > denial.
> > >
> > > To me, the bigger challenge is not necessarily
> >
> > whether
> >
> > > or not a PCI card could be reverse engineered
> >
> > (because
> >
> > > it could, it just takes a talented person with the
> > > right equipment, even if they encrypt everything
> >
> > on
> >
> > > the bus), but what kind of data the CableCARD
> >
> > gives
> >
> > > us.  If the data that we get from the CableCARD is
> > > completely encrypted, then we'll be limited in the
> > > things we can do with it (commercial flagging
> >
> > would
> >
> > > likely not be possible, since MythTV has to
> >
> > analyze
> >
> > > the contents of the stream).
> > >
> > > I would really like a legitmate CableCARD solution
> >
> > for
> >
> > > Linux, but I want it to have the current
> >
> > featureset of
> >
> > > analog cable.  Wishful thinking, I know.
> > >
> > > -- Joe
> > >
> > > __________________________________________________
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> >
> > protection around
> >
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> > > _______________________________________________
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> > > mythtv-users at mythtv.org
>
> http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
>
> > The newest HDTivo uses cablecard.   I think there is
> > a chance of making it
> > work in Linux.
> >
> > The more I keep looking at the state of HD
> > television that they are trying
> > to roll out the more I get the impression that they
> > want to give us "a much
> > better picture" in exchanged for us not continuing
> > to time shift anymore.
> > So we'll have resolution and detail for the 21st
> > century and usability and
> > flexibiltiy from the 1970's.
> >
> > > _______________________________________________
> >
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> > mythtv-users at mythtv.org
>
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>
>
> I should have clarified my original statement - the
> only PC design I know of with CableCARD is the Shuttle
> one.  I did hear of the HDTivo recently as well.
> There might be other PC CableCARD implementations, but
> I haven't followed the news on them because I have no
> interest in CableCARD at this point (the place where I
> live does their own analog cable).
>
> I have no doubt that it can be made to work under
> Linux - Tivo is likely (still) using Linux, and after
> reading the CableCARD (or was is OCAP?  I don't
> remember) application documents, they have to make
> sure that this thing is literally an unhackable box.
> At least enough to make plausable deniability, so no
> PCI slots and everything embedded into one PCB with
> encryption and keeping the CableCARD driver non-GPL'd
> should satisfy CableLabs.  A generic PC is much
> harder.
>
> Hollywood places too great a value on their content.
> The cable operators are in the middle.  They (at least
> some of the ones I've dealt with indirectly) want to
> provide good service to the customer, but their hands
> are tied by the media companies.  Things like ABC
> forcing the operators to carry ABC Family if they want
> to carry ESPN.
>
> The cable companies will wind up killing shooting
> themselves in the foot if they're not careful.  IPTV
> over DSL using MPEG-4 is steadily catching up.
>
> -- Joe

its IPTV over fiber thats scaring them... (Verizon FIOS)

Too many cable company's have no 5C encryption on their HD cable boxes 
firewire output, if there was that much pressure on them they would do it, I 
think its individual cable company regions that do it depending on the person 
running that area. For instance, different areas of Comcast all have 
different 5C settings. I think its the cable company's scared that their 
profit stream will be lost from people downloading the content (for some 
unknown reason, considering the monetary and time costs associated with this, 
most people I think would rather spend the $100/mo to get the content 
delivered straight to them no hassle).

I don't think the media providors are all too worried about it pirating. I'm 
yea, but I think they're beginning to wisen up to consumer desires and are 
beginning to cater more to them, quick DVD releases of shows, at reasonable 
prices, etc. Hopefully they will jump on the HD-DVD bandwagon and begin 
re-releasing shows that were broadcast in HD to HD-DVD.

-- 
Steve