[mythtv-users] Let's get our heads straight here on listings solutions
icman at eol.ca
Wed Jun 27 01:32:08 UTC 2007
Joe please explain again how you are listening to what other people are
saying in their posts. You keep saying that there is no motivation for
stations to gather this information and provide to us, even if we don't
charge any money - that they won't do anything that isn't profitable.
Yet everyone disagreeing with you says that these "unmotivated" stations
already gather and provide this information, and ironically have to pay
Tribune and other data consolodation providers for the privilege of
performing this "tedious" work, as you say. None of your posts address
the assertion that the stations already do this work. What is there to
motivate them to do? They are obviously already motivated, so much so
that they pay someone to do the work, then pay Tribune again!
These stations WANT TO GIVE AWAY THIS DATA. They want you to have it,
so you know whats on their channels, so you will tune in. THEY WANT
THEIR PROGRAMMING TO REACH THEIR TARGET DEMOGRAPHICS.
Don't you think if we make life easier for them by providing work
reducing tools to gather the data, and then we provide the consolodation
and rebroadcast service for free, that they won't be even MORE motivated
to go along with our plan? Let's see, it saves them money in work
effort to gather the data - that's additional profit. Oh, and they
don't have to pay direct subscription fees on the order of $12,000 a
month - that drops directly onto the bottom line too. Wow, did you see
The only barriers as far as the stations are concerned are a provable
solution and an audience for the data.
Stop trying to convince the people on this thread that creating and
advocating a more robust, free, and better solution than provided by
Tribune is a poor use of their time. If you don't like this thread,
stop posting to it. Stick to the threads that ARE focusing on the "life
threatening injury" as you call it, and let us focus on future state if
we want to. Stop being such a negativist, and let us dream our little
dream, let us live in our fantasy land, and give us the chance to
On Mon, 2007-25-06 at 09:16 -0400, Joe Borne wrote:
> > On Fri, Jun 22, 2007 at 07:37:17PM -0400, Joe Borne wrote:
> > > [deletia]
> > >
> > > >> You really aren't following the logic here. Every action is in some way
> > >
> > > > Sure I am. I am merely not fixating on the distance between where
> > > > we are and where we want to be and despairing because that gulf seems
> > > > insurmountable.
> > >
> > > Actually you're not. If you were you wouldn't keep citing examples and
> > > metaphores that don't even remotely apply. So far: you've tried to
> > > compare a for-profit to a charity, assumed an entire industry would
> > > embrace an idea they already know is unprofitable, and now below you
> > They "know" no such thing.
> > They also already provide the data we're interested, at no
> > cost but not in a format that's easily digestible for our purposes.
> > > presume that someone who makes his living predicting technology and
> > > sociological trends cannot see past the next 90 days (also wrong, as I
> > > said "60 days".)
> > Futurologists are like weathermen.
> > [deletia]
> > I need to put that on a bumper sticker.
> I swore I wasn't going to wade back into this debate, since the
> original author of the idea in question posted such a lucid, and
> polite response. So I wont' respond to the above jabs that really
> don't serve to move us in a productive direction.
> But I can't let the whole "futurology" comment pass, as I really don't
> want to be lumped into that camp. I am oft quoted as saying that
> weatherman are one step up from crystal ball gazers. Futurologists
> are, with a few notable exceptions, one step up from weatherman, IMHO.
> But what I do is wholly different in that it applies more to the
> "micro" than the "macro" prediction field. IT business analysis and
> outcome prediction is a discipline that's wholly grounded in sound
> science. There is always room for interpretation of the data, but
> proper application of post modern psychological techniques has a high
> success rate. Every corporation in America utilizes these tools to
> varying degrees.
> Apple Computer (just "Apple" now, as I understand) is a great example
> of a company that uses BA work with incredible results. They examine
> the psychology of the desires of their customers and then work
> backwards to a solution. The results speak for themselves. You may or
> may not like their products, but their success is undeniable.
> The RIAA and more recently the MPAA is a great example of the reverse.
> Rather than look into the needs and desires of their customers and
> finding a way to satisfy them, they instead looked for the best way to
> serve themselves and exploit their customers. They have since then
> attempted every tactic in the book to convince people that DRM is
> good. Once again, the results speak for themselves.
> So how does that apply to us?
> Well, the problem we face here is neither strategic, nor tactical
> (another bizarre fallicy voiced by my logic challenged detractor), but
> motivational. None of the ideas voiced here have provided enough
> motivation for the station owners to perform this task for us. In
> addition , it would require tremendous effort to gather, organize and
> control this data. Our erstwhile brothers overseas have tried this
> with a meager 13 stations and have found it a daunting task.
> I am all for ambitious ideas and for the creation of something better
> than the Direct Data solution. However, we have a patient with a fatal
> wound. Before Vietnam, doctors used to treat critically injured people
> by patiently going about repairing every single problem. Quite often
> the result was a perfectly repaired corpse as the body simply could
> not endure the trauma. During Vietnam doctors started treating the
> most life threatening issues first. They gave the patient time to
> recover and then addressed the remaining issues in descending order
> over several surgeries. This improved survival rates dramatically.
> We have a similar situation here. Unless we fix this in the next 60
> days, our guides will go dark. There are those who would argue, but in
> essence the PVR abilities of MythTV would die. This cannot be allowed
> to happen.
> So my goal with the original post was to try to pull us out of the
> folly of envisioning a perfect solution, and get us focused on fixing
> the life threatening injury. Since even the most cursory analysis
> shows that perpetuating Data Direct, or inserting a new commercial
> provider is the most viable solution, we should focus our efforts
> Once we are past September, and we are all still scheduling our
> favorite shows for time-shifted viewing, we can look to the future.
> Then I will be more than happy to see any and all ideas, no matter how
> far-fetched, be entertained. The beauty of open source is it's mimicry
> of the evolutionary process. The best ideas will thrive and the others
> will die off naturally.
> Best Wishes.
> mythtv-users mailing list
> mythtv-users at mythtv.org
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