[mythtv-users] Hauppage Analog Cards, alternatives?

[Jeff Holicky]

On Mon, 1 Sep 2008 13:21:22 -0400, "Colin McGregor"
<colin.mc151 at gmail.com> said:
> On 9/1/08, Jeff Holicky <myth.myth_user at myth.sent.com> wrote:
> > On Thu, 28 Aug 2008 18:40:45 -0700, "Derek Archer"
> > <eggman97132007 at mac.com> said:
> >> Hi all, I just subscribed to the list so forgive me if this question
> >> is already in the current discussions.
> >>
> >> I am looking to build a combination back/frontend box. I am currently
> >> on analog cable and plan to remain so for the forseeable future. I
> >> have been trying to find a good dual-tuner, dual-encoder analog card.
> >> The Hauppauge PVR-500 is getting VERY difficult to find in my trials,
> >> and I cannot even order them direct from Hauppauge anymore. Their
> >> official word is the the FCC will not let them ship analog cards due
> >> to the DTV transition. They suggested the HVR series, but as far as I
> >> can tell, they are hit or miss on MythTV compatibility.
> >>
> >> One potential alternative I found is the AverMedia AverTV combo card,
> >> which has an analog tuner w/ encoder as well as a QAM digital tuner.
> >> It is PCI Express x1 card and I would like to know if anyone has had
> >> any luck with this or similar cards from AverMedia, or any other
> >> manufacturer. The resources online I have found seem to be somewhat
> >> outdated in regards to these newer cards.
> >>
> >> Cheers
> >>
> >> Derek
> >
> > I am just at the beginning to build my own MythTV system - and find the
> > Hauppauge issues to be quite disturbing.
> >
> > First, on the FCC - sounds confusing to me.  Is there something (being
> > in Canada EH?) that I am missing wrt analogue to digital conversion?  Is
> > the US doing something that is above and beyond what we have in Canada?
> > Right now I rent a cable box - from that I can use
> > coax/video/s-video/(component maybe) - to the TV.  To me all that is
> > analogue.  Digital would be via HDMI or some Firewire device.  But in
> > the end we pay the cable company to get a coax - and then if we want to
> > pony up - rent/buy a digital set top to get the extra channels.  (SD /
> > HD).   Are my terms wrong?  Is S-VIDEO considered "digital" ?
> 
> Your terms are more incomplete than wrong. In February 2009 all
> regular analog over-the-air TV station in the US are to be shutdown,
> in August 2011 the same is to happen in Canada. Most US stations and a
> few Canadian stations are in addition to their regular analog
> over-the-air signals are now also broadcasting a digital TV signal
> over the air. If you want to continue to watch over-the-air TV after
> the above cut-off dates you will have to have a TV with a tuner that
> accepts and can deal with the ATSC digital signal, or you will need a
> digital to analog converter box.
> 
> The cable companies can continue to offer analog services after the
> above cut-off dates, so anyone on cable can contine as is with analog
> for the forseeable future.
> 
> To return to terms, you can get an analog signal from HDMI, and
> Firewire. Though coax you can get an analog, or in parts of Canada a
> digital signal. Now to keep things messy some Canadian cable companies
> are encrypting ALL digital signals sent down their coax lines (meaning
> if you want to watch a digital signal from them you must pay a service
> fee for a descrambler box).
> 
> In my case I have a MythTV box set-up with two analog tuners (a
> Hauppage PVR-150 and a PVR-350) connected to @#$% Rogers Cable here in
> Toronto, ON, and one pcHDTV-5500 HDTV tuner card connected to an
> outdoor antenna. So, I can watch digital TV from Toronto and Buffalo,
> NY over-the-air stations. My MythTV box displays onto a Sony 26"
> analog TV. In essence my MythTV box can be set to act like one of the
> biggest / ugliest digital to analog converters going :-) .
> 
> > In the US, is there some digital connection being forced by the FCC to
> > be adopted?  I thought the FCC was merely removing the analogue
> > broadcasts and forced people to get digital via an "OTA" "Satellite" or
> > "Cable" set top boxes.  What does ANY of that have to do with the feed
> > coming FROM those boxes to the TV?
> 
> With the lead up to analog TV transmitters being shutdown the US FCC
> has ordered an end to sales of analog only receivers. Receivers that
> can do analog and digital are fine... This has a carry over here,
> where the high end analog only tuners have become scarce...
> 
> > Which brings me to the Hauppauge question - why would the 150, 250, 350,
> > 500 (x50/500[/MCE]) units be phased out BECAUSE of the FCC?  The HVR
> > seems to still use that old school analogue 125 channel input - so what
> > is that all about?  Or is Hauppauge merely using the FCC notice as a
> > method to phase out those units for newer ones?
> 
> The HVR series can do analog and digital so are fine as far as the FCC
> is concerned. The PVR series is analog only only, so the FCC has told
> Hauppage to stop producing those...
> 
> > Which now leads me to this - not sure at this date if any of the HVR
> > units are supported (properly) by Myth.  I am starting to look for the
> > 150-500 cards and already finding it hard to get a 250.  About 6m ago I
> > asked and many suggested the 250 over the x50/500 was the better way to
> > go.  I want to start with 2 set top boxes and eventually to 4 (could be
> > 2x250 or 4x250 or 2x250, 2xHDHR etc etc).  Now what?
> 
> Some of the HVR units are partially supported under MythTV. With a
> number of digital TV tuner card one finds the digital TV support to be
> good/excellent but support for the analog section of the card to be
> poor/no-existant. This is true with my pcHDTV-5500 card, excellent
> digital support under linux, but the analog section...
> 
> > The other negative is the capital to get this all going properly - I was
> > actually thinking of getting a retail 150 or 250 to hookup under WinXP
> > until I am ready to move to the Myth system - but even that is a problem
> > it seems.  Some suggest "instead of a 150/500 get the 150MCE / 500MCE" -
> > I assume that works well with Myth but seeing as I am not running MCE -
> > I assume my WinXP would not support those cards.  True?
> >
> > So big picture - anybody know of a game plan I should take - should I be
> > waiting until the HVR cards are more mature wrt Myth/Linux development?
> > Will I be able to buy 2 HVR cards and still record SD programming as I
> > would with the x50/500 series?  (once the drivers are working well)?
> >
> > Sounds like getting an older x50/500 series card is not the right move
> > today as I am buying legacy/future unsupported hardware.
> >
> > Thoughts?
> 
> If you get you TV via cable then for the forseeable future your good
> with the PVR series cards (in fact collect them while you can). As for
> digital cards, great stuff if you are in range of at least one over
> the air digital TV station (GREAT picture quality). What messes things
> up is the cable companies, if your local cable company scrambles
> EVERYTHING then any digital tuner card is irrelevant when it comes to
> cable TV (sigh).
> 
> > Thanks
> > jeff
> 
> Colin McGregor


Thanks to Kevin and yourself Colin for explaining the FCC related
changes.  A buddy told me there is a "commercial broadcast" flag concept
being floated around - to allow cable company PVRs to record but not
home brew systems.  As Hammy Hamster would say "... but that's another
story".

I see you post to the Toronto thread - I live in Richmond Hill and use
Ted Rogers (mind the sarcastic smile).  Are you suggesting Ted scrambles
everything? :P

Hopefully I can get some assistance to point me in the right direction
of the PVR card to get - based on the limited offerings.

1) I would prefer getting one or more PVR 250 cards, if I can get them -
I have read that they seem to offer better quality over the 150.

2) My initial thought was that the 500 was merely 2x150 but at a reduced
cost.  But I am seeing (please correct me) that the 500 is OKAY for --
(a) unencrypted digital streams - where the dual tuner splits the signal
from ONE coax in; or (b) straight non-digital analogue cable - whereby
instead of having to have a splitter and plug 2 coax in the card, it
takes one coax for the 2 tuners.   

My ultimate goal is up to 4 digital boxes - with say S-VIDEO (or best
offering) out of the boxes.  If I could snap my fingers I'd have 4 SD
tuners today.  I have a SD PVR from Rogers so I like the dual tuner
ability; plus we have the single box.  No need for any HD yet. 

I seem to have read that the 500 used to (on their website) have an
extra header that provided a SECOND S-VIDEO IN.  In theory this card
would be OKAY if I could plug in TWO S-VIDEO connectors.  Not sure if
this can be confirmed or not.  Having a 500 and no extra header though
would be a bother.

3) My next thought is the 350 - except it contains TV OUT (at a
premium).  If in the end the 350 sits in the basement in a backend, why
would i need that?  The only other thought is - as a stop gap before I
get Myth going, the 350 would be good - under windows recording.

4) Leaves me (assuming I cannot get the 250) with getting the PVR-150
card - say 2-3 of them for my needs.  As suggested I should be getting
them now.
The retail 150 includes an IR BLASTER as well - still haven't figured
out if that is a bonus for Myth or merely a waste if I get LIRC
available (a few 3rd parties offer LIRC connectors I have seen).  (can
someone confirm this?)  White box OEMs are probably vanilla cards.

Lastly, can either of you clarify the models that are NON-MCE and MCE -
I get the MCE (media center edition) - but I am not following on whether
one flavor is better than the other.  I assume there are drivers for
Linux for both.  What makes MCE better than NON-MCE?  (just a driver
issue or actual hardware differences).  I assume I should get MCE
regardless of what model of card I get?

thanks again
jeff