[mythtv-users] overscan problems with nvidia 8400 GS

[jedi]

On Fri, Jul 17, 2009 at 11:20:54PM -0400, Marc Tousignant wrote:
> 
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: mythtv-users-bounces at mythtv.org [mailto:mythtv-users-
> > bounces at mythtv.org] On Behalf Of Tortise
> > Sent: Friday, July 17, 2009 7:27 PM
> > To: Discussion about mythtv
> > Subject: Re: [mythtv-users] overscan problems with nvidia 8400 GS
> > 
> > Hi Dale
> > I believe while NVIDIA may have a little to answer I believe your Sony
> > TV has much more, as that is the real source of the problem.
> > I understand any >= 8xxx NVIDIA card will give you the same result over
> > component.  (I can confirm same happens with a 8500GT and
> > 9400GT)
> > Some of the old CRT's have some distinct advantages, better blacks,
> > wider viewing angles etc so in many respects they remain better
> > than LCD, the most recent possibly catching up!  (Some dinosaurs endure
> > today....so they have a lot of experience to pull on!)
> > I am sure Sony (or whoever you choose) will love to see one of your
> > kids leave home early!
> > What model of Sony TV do you have?
> > Is it in warranty still?
> > Do you have or is a pdf of the manual available?
> > What do Sony say it should do over component?
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Dale Pontius" <DEPontius at edgehp.net>
> > To: "Discussion about mythtv" <mythtv-users at mythtv.org>
> > Sent: Saturday, July 18, 2009 11:10 AM
> > Subject: Re: [mythtv-users] overscan problems with nvidia 8400 GS
> > 
> > 
> > Brian Wood wrote:
> > > On Monday 06 July 2009 07:52:25 Johnny wrote:
> > >
> > >> It is true that overscan is caused by the TV and not the video card,
> > >> however, the problem of displaying stuff from a computer on a TV is
> > >> shared by the TV and the video card. In the case of SD TVs, they
> > were
> > >> never intended to be hooked up to a computer and so it is
> > unreasonable
> > >> to hope for them to fix this issue. So in my opinion, if Nvidia
> > >> provides a TV out option they do have some responsiblity to help me
> > >> display stuff correctly on that TV (especially since overscan is
> > >> standard in many many TVs).
> > >
> > > Another history lesson:
> > >
> > > Why is overscan standard?
> > >
> > > In the "Old Days" (defined as a block of time that ended the day you
> > were
> > > born) virtually all TV sets came from the factory overscanning to an
> > extent.
> > > The reason is because as the TV set aged, many things tended to
> > change with
> > > time: capacitors would get leaky, tubes would lose emission and other
> > bad
> > > things would happen. Unfortunately just about all these changes
> > tended to
> > > reduce voltages in the set, and result in under scanning.
> > >
> > <snip>
> > >
> > > </history lesson>
> > >
> > I don't buy it.
> > 
> > I don't doubt what you say, and I can agree that your history is
> > perfectly valid.  I just don't believe it explains what I see on my
> > setup.  You appear to have essentially "absolved" nVidia of any "guilt"
> > with the 8000-series and overscan, by saying it's all a specmanship
> > problem with NTSC and overscan from day-1.
> > 
> > I have one of those clunky old NTSC CRT sets. (A Sony, if it matters.)
> > I know we're dinosaurs, but we've also got 2 kids in college.  Current
> > plan says that the first kid out of the house gets a TV, and we get a
> > new one.
> > 
> > This TV has never had serious visual problems with anything we've
> > hooked
> > up to it.  That includes VCR through RF, VCR through composite, VCR
> > through svideo, DVD player through composite video, DVD player through
> > svideo, and DVD player through component video, and several of the
> > kids'
> > friend's games consoles.  No visually annoying overscan problem, but
> > you
> > probably wouldn't expect to see any with that range of hardwared.
> > 
> > But I've also driven that same tv from a laptop with svideo out, again
> > with no noticable visual/overscan problems.  (Incidentally, Radeon
> > Mobile)  Oh, and my daughter's boyfriend's Mac also drove the TV just
> > fine through composite.
> > 
> > Out of all this hardware, the ONLY thing driving the TV that has had
> > ANY
> > problem is the nVidia 8400GS in the Myth frontend I'm building - the
> > machine that is essentially stalled for several reasons, this being one
> > of them.  ("The picture's kind of blurry",  Well OF COURSE it's blurry
> > when the video's being close-rescaled because I'm letting Myth resize
> > the picture to compensate for overscan.)
> > 
> > So I don't deny what you've said - but I insist that what nVidia has
> > done is way above and beyond what you've said - they've shipped a
> > BROKEN
> > product if you're one of those dinosaurs driving a CRT.
> > 
> > Ya know, the nVidia 6200 in the machine I'm using now is kind of a
> > stinker - slow.  I might make sense to give up on the TV-out of the
> > 8400GS and move it to this machine.  But what should I get instead?
> > One
> > really nice thing about the 8400GS I got was that it would drive
> > component video, presumably to give me the best picture - until I had
> > to
> > compensate for overscan.
> > 
> > Dale Pontius
> > _______________________________________________
> 
> I will comment on this, I have an Olivia 37 inch LCD, I have used it for
> several years through 3 different frontends all with nvidia cards in them.
> The first 2 cards were a GeForce 5700LE and a GeForce Go 7300 (AppleTV).

   I have an AppleTV hooked up to a couple of TVs that give bogus EDID 
information that my intel based minis can't seem to deal with. They see
what the TVs are sending in terms of PnP information and kind of just
lose their minds. Both of these overscan with either the nv7300 or nv9400.

   I have a 3rd TV that is more friendly in general and it doesn't overscan
and it also seems to send good EDID information. Oddly enough, it's the same
brand (Toshiba) as one of the naughty TVs.

   Misbehaving TVs is certainly something that Nvidia should be accounting
for in it's drivers. This is true across the board. Everyone who writes
drivers (regardless of OS) need to allow accomodating old stuff or hardware
that seems to violate current standards.

   That said, overscan only seems to be a problem for UIs and not for content.

> Both of these worked fine without having to adjust the gui placement.
> The new frontend I just built has an nVidia ION. I had to adjust the gui
> placement due to overscan issues. The TV has not changed and X logs say that
> it is connecting using the same resolution and frequencies as my other
> configs did, but the gui was not set right.
> 
> Marc
> 
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