[mythtv-users] cutlist editing hangs frontend
cas at taz.net.au
Sun Nov 14 08:20:34 UTC 2010
On Sun, Nov 14, 2010 at 08:01:20AM +0100, Johan wrote:
> Op 14-11-10 01:30, Craig Sanders schreef:
> >On Sat, Nov 13, 2010 at 05:09:18PM -0700, E. Westbrook wrote:
> >>Thanks guys. Don't let the haters get you down.
> >making a comment that isn't glowingly positive does NOT make someone a
> >i love mythtv. that is not at all incompatible with the ability to spot
> >that some things are imperfect, nor is it incompatible with the desire
> >to offer constructive feedback.
> Allow me a few remarks.
> 1. Craig, don't hijack threads to air your opinion!
you're entitled to your own opinion on the matter, but i just don't see
it as hijacking the thread. the thread was about a bug with the new
editor. my reply started off being directly connected to that bug,
and then digressed to a wider comment about changes in the new editor.
i expect, though, that i'd have gotten the opposite point if i had
started a new thread - "don't blow in out of nowhere and start
> 2. Talking to the developers in person is not like complaining about
> MS, you are likely to get a stronger reaction.
huh? does that make any sense at all?
> You could have asked why the changes were made. Your initial comments
> were not constructive.
i wrote a list of my observations. any dev (or knowledgable person)
could have chosen to address or explain or even refute any or all of
them. that's why i wrote it as a list, to make it easy for each
point to be responded to individually.
the developer of the new editor did post a URL to the doc page for
the it, which i appreciated. unfortunately, he also decided to view
the posting of a simple list as a personal insult. two others decided
that this was a great opportunity to demonstrate their 'loyalty' (one
politely and reasonably, one aggressively). you make the third.
explanations would have been good (the doc page DID explain some of my
concerns. my primary concern, though, remains using the Menu key rather
than the Select key for editing existing cut-points. that's a major
usability regression, esp. for keyboard users).
as i said, explanations or refutations would have been good - my ego can
tolerate the revelation that i may be mistaken about something, and/or
that there may be something i just don't know yet about the new editor.
I don't think i'm wrong to assume that MythTV devs also have a normal,
healthy ego - or maybe i am wrong, maybe i should just assume that
they'll be shattered and devastated by the fact that some complete
stranger on the net they've probably never heard of before thinks that
their work is not quite perfect? sorry, but i don't have such contempt
for them. i pay them the respect of assuming they're not broken.
so, tell me Mr Expert Diplomat, how exactly do you write a list of
problematic changes seen in a new version *without actually listing the
changes for fear of offending someone*?
especially when, as has been demonstrated on numerous occasions over the
years on this list, *ANY* comment that's even the slightest bit negative
*WILL*, no matter how it is worded, inevitably be attacked as if it's
the most heinous, disgusting and abusive thing anyone has ever written.
dissent is forbidden. drink the cool-aid and be happy.
it can't be done.
leaving exactly two choices:
1. don't say anything for fear of someone taking offense, and never see
the problems that concern you get fixed (or explained if there's a good
reason for them).
2. post anyway and risk upsetting a fragile ego or two.
i chose the latter.
> 3. if you don't like the keys, there might be a way to re-assign keys
i already mentioned that i couldn't find any way to do that. you
obviously didn't actually read what i wrote (as is obvious from you
bogus statement that 'your initial comments were not constructive').
> 3. A lot of people spend a lot of time to make this product what it
> is, the top PVR/media center application.
> Be grateful for what they deliver.
I am grateful. even if it does have a few warts here and there, mythtv
really is an excellent program. but being grateful doesn't mean i have
to be a groveling sycophant abasing myself before my betters, or refrain
from saying anything that might possibly be construed as being even
slightly less than fulsomely glowing praise.
I'm a user of MythTV. Not a devotee or a worshipper of the developers.
Do the devs really expect such a groveling attitude from users, or is
that just something enforced by over-eager users on this list?
If they do (which i doubt - from what i've seen by reading and very
rarely posting to this list over the years it's mostly just a handful
of users), there's something seriously wrong.
BTW, i develop FOSS software myself, and have also contributed code,
patches, bug reports and documentation to numerous projects (including
one utterly trivial patch to mythweb). and i've been a debian developer
for about 15 years. being a bit thick-skinned and not having a fragile
ego is essential, as bug reports tend to be written as brief, factual
summaries (the good ones are, anyway). and mostly, bug reports etc by
their nature inevitably focus on the negative and tend to be written by
people who have just been bitten by the bug/change, and are affected
enough by it to bother writing.
MythTV is the *only* FOSS community i've seen that is so hypersensitive
and thin-skinned. not even the gnome project comes close to the
thin-skin seen here (and they're more arrogant and dismissive than
defensively thin-skinned, anyway).
really guys - users & devs - try to understand that someone providing
feedback and criticism is NOT attacking the project or the people behind
it. such criticism is almost exclusively motivated by a desire to help
and improve things.
craig sanders <cas at taz.net.au>
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